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Pitt, Syracuse elope with the ACC; why St. John's should worry about realignment

Well, this isn't good news for the Big East and conference expansion:

Pittsburgh and Syracuse submitted letters of application to the Atlantic Coast Conference and are "likely gone" from the Big East, high ranking ACC and Big East officials told CBSSports.com....

"There is no scenario where a president applies to a league and isn't admitted," a Big East official told CBSSports.com.

And today, it's official. Pittsburgh and Syracuse have left the Big East for the ACC.

A number of other schools have reportedly expressed interest in becoming members of the Atlantic Coast Conference, who also raised their exit fee to $20 million to assure their members won't be poached by the Southeastern Conference (or anyone else). Texas is rumored to have inquired about the ACC, and the ACC reports that a total of ten teams have reached out with inquiries.

I have been hoping to not have to write about conference expansion, but it's at the Red Storm's door. This is bad news for the monster that is Big East basketball, for St. John's, and possibly even for the Red Storm's resurgence. More, below the fold.

Star-divide

I. The situation in a nutshell

The Big East football conference has an automatic bid to the contrivance that is the BCS bowl system. That's fortunate, because Big East football isn't actually very good. The league has scuffled along as a hybrid basketball/ football conference, with charter members without top division D-1 football teams.

The Atlantic Coast Conference came raiding in 2005, snatching Virginia Tech, Miami, and Boston College. The Big East responded with a snatch of its own, taking South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Marquette, and DePaul from Conference USA to remain a viable football conference. Connecticut had moved up to high-level football as well, and Rutgers made a real attempt to not be the worst football program in Division I.

But alas, the other conferences have better television deals, better competition, better cachet. Every year, the top teams are in the south and midwest. The conference has continued to scuffle in football, where the biggest revenues are earned from fans and TV contracts.

The Big East has looked at some other schools to add, but the conference members haven't been able to agree on allowing Villanova to move into bowl-level Division I play with the rest of the league. The league has also looked at schools with little name recognition such as Central Florida. All the while, the BE has been trying to angle for a richer television deal with ESPN or someone else, even turning down a deal this year.

II. Whoops

I posted a look at what a fanciful 20-team Big East basketball conference would look like (with a Google Map) in a world where Pitt, Cuse, and West Virginia stayed, Missouri, Kansas, and Kansas State were available, and Pitt and Syracuse didn't skedaddle. It also included a possible Iowa State. 

It made for a nice hoops league and a viable football conference before yesterday's news.

News that Pittsburgh and Syracuse would simply pack their bags one bright and sunny fall day means that any team could do the same; the Big East is a bit of a revolving door. Even though Oklahoma and Texas looking east and west for new homes, even though Cincinnati would rather stay in the Big East, even though Baylor is rumored to have inquired about joining the Big East, there is little guarantee of security.

The Big XII may try to survive as Texas, the midwestern schools (Missouri, Kansas, etc.), and some decent Conference USA squads. In fact, if the Big XII survives, the conference could choose to snag the strong Louisville and Cincinnati programs. That would leave the "Big East" with South Florida, Connecticut, Rutgers, and West Virginia, who would be whispering sweet nothings to any conference that will take them home. And Texas Christian.

Geographically, logistically, emotionally, losing two members of the already-small Big East is a reason to sound the alarm. The chain of events is speculative, but logical; the Big East is on shifting sands without anything stable to hang on to. If the Big XII teams want to join the Big East in a geographically misnamed conference, it's probably the best for all involved; but it seems like an unwise move for them.

III. The basketball problem

College hoops is the strength of the 16-team Big East.

College hoops doesn't earn as much money as fall football games, even in a region where college football is simply not as big of a deal as it is in Ohio or Texas.

Chances are that today's news makes the idea of a split between the football playing schools and the basketball schools more feasible.

After all, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul, and even Notre Dame have different priorities. They're Catholic schools, mostly in urban bases, and none are going to start a top level football team anytime soon, except for possibly Villanova. Watching football drive the changes in the conference's competition has to give many of these schools pause.

The number of basketball-only schools also limits the feasible size of an all-sports conference. There are only so many teams one can play in a conference season in hoops; the schedule is already unbalanced, and only so many additions can be added.

IV. The problem for St. John's

A divorce between the football and the basketball-only sides would be welcome by many who prefer basketball. But if basketball doesn't make the money, or bring eyeballs to the screen, which media outlet buys basketball? How would the games be shown? If the games aren't regularly on ESPN or a network with similar reach, the contract for the games would be less.

And in a few years, the money coming to the universities would shrink.

Which means the coaching staff money would shrink. The recruiting budgets would shrink. The perks budget would shrink. 

Then you have the Atlantic 10 - good basketball without the selling point of television exposure and a twice-weekly lovefest from the mainstream media. Even a strength in New York may not be enough to get the media income the basketball teams are accustomed to.

And the loss of the rivalries! No Georgetown/Syracuse? No St. John's/ Rutgers? Fewer big games in Madison Square Garden?

Some will say that Syracuse won't be able to schedule as many games in New York City, or that Pitt will lose its recruiting base in New York.

Why?

Cuse can still play the big tournaments in New York (Coaches vs. Cancer and the like), schedule a home game against Duke (who also love reasons to come to New York), and start series with the New York area Big East teams. Pitt can do the same. Both schools already recruit nationally and/ or in the DMV (DC/ Maryland/ Virginia) area. They are strong programs in basketball, they will have no trouble adapting.

V. The endgame

One of the reasons Steve Lavin accepted the job at St. John's is because the school decided to spend like an honest-to-goodness Big East team, to pay for charters, and to pay top dollar for top assistants. 

Without that money, it'll be hard to keep Steve Lavin - or any high quality coach - from jumping to a conference with a basketball team that's helped out by football money. At best, a basketball-only conference can have teams with the cachet of the Atlantic-10, where teams can pay to keep their coaches, but still isn't seen as a final destination. 

St. John's basketball has New York, has history, and it will find a home. It won't likely be joining the Atlantic-10, which would be a downgrade - the A-10 is very hard to find on television, after all.

But the best-case scenario is a diluted basketball conference with too many teams, at best. The worse case scenarios will make money harder to come by for the school's sports teams. 

We will be monitoring the rumors and movements. What are your thoughts?

 

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If all the football schools walk, we have the following:
St. John’s
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
DePaul
Seton Hall
Providence
Notre Dame

We can add Xavier to go to nine and one or two more if we want. But staying at nine gives us a round robin schedule. We would be in three of the top five markets and have programs that have a national brand. I think we would be OK. We could get a television deal that would be fine especially with less mouths to feed. The basketball schools were getting overrun by football. Who wants to see Pitt at the Garden? Syracuse can play a game at the Garden each year but they get zero coverage in the City. We will move on and be fine.

by redmen9194 on Sep 18, 2011 9:12 AM EDT reply actions  

maybe.

It could be a really good ball-only conference, and maybe there’s no effect. But money-wise, this is unexplored country.

Rumble in the Garden - St. John's blog with thunderous undertones, on SB Nation | Follow on Facebook | Follow on Twitter

by picodulce on Sep 18, 2011 10:22 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

according to big east rules,

27 months before the teams leave. I have no idea what that means for the next deal!

Rumble in the Garden - St. John's blog with thunderous undertones, on SB Nation | Follow on Facebook | Follow on Twitter

by picodulce on Sep 18, 2011 10:50 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Does Picodulce ever have anything positive to write about St. John's on this site?

Why all the negative Karma when it comes to St. John’s dude? Your list of articles always reads “what could go wrong at SJ”! The Big East is about college basketball. It has been the top BB conference in America. College football loses money at most NCAA schools. All the schools are chasing TV money and abandoning traditional rivalries. That dilutes their basketball value once December rolls in and Syracuse finds itself without a Jim Boeheim and has to fill the Dome with visitors like Wake Forest, NC State, BC, Clemson, Ga Tech, Maryland, Miami, Florida State INSTEAD of traditional rivals like St. John’s, Uconn, Georgetown, Villanova, Louisville, Notre Dame, etc. that bring in better basketball competition! Why don’t you mention what the defection of Miami and BC did to the Big East basketball strength? It made it a better basketball conference even to this day! BC in particular has sucked in the southern ACC world. In fact, they opened this season O for 3 and lost to football powerhouse DUKE at home! Why don’t you mention that with the exception of Florida State and VaTech that ACC football is weak overall and a school like Syracuse weakens it even further? Finally, I would recommend that SB Nation find writers that are positive about the profiled schools on their site rather than the negative dribble that it written here lately! To all St. John’s fans on the web please visit redmen.com and forget this anti site.

by SJUhoopnut on Sep 18, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I respect your opinion, but slow down a minute there.

Before you tar me (and maybe you should read yesterday’s piece on how St. John’s is on the upswing, or maybe you missed on how I thought Lenn Robbins was wiping dirt on the program in yesterday’s article. Or all the recruiting pieces. I am not negative on St. John’s) – understand that the news is the news, and this is bad news for St. John’s and Big East basketball. Point blank.

What the ACC is doing is, apparently, irrelevant to Cuse and Pitt. Some strongly believe that U Conn is also looking around. How can you not say that’s a bad thing for St. John’s?

You make good points; if you want to write them as a fanpost, I would happily feature it on the front page. This site is a place for news and ideas; the news isn’t always positive. And the news isn’t always positive on Redmen or Johnny Jungle either, an you know that’s true.

This changing landscape is a real issue for basketball-only teams.

Rumble in the Garden - St. John's blog with thunderous undertones, on SB Nation | Follow on Facebook | Follow on Twitter

by picodulce on Sep 18, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Pic is pretty fair AND thorough

the real problem is the climate of not just college basketball but college sports as a whole. From the rules and regulations to the business dealings, even tournament formats and ranking systems, college sports as a whole is a mess right now.

I found Carmen SanDiego! Guess Where? Go Ahead...That's Right..SanDiego.
www.indiscriminateswag.blogspot.com

by Lord Smackington on Sep 28, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

Rumble in the Garden - St. John's blog with thunderous undertones, on SB Nation | Follow on Facebook | Follow on Twitter

by picodulce on Oct 1, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You wrote this above:
“IV. The problem for St. John’s

A divorce between the football and the basketball-only sides would be welcome by many who prefer basketball. But if basketball doesn’t make the money, or bring eyeballs to the screen, which media outlet buys basketball? How would the games be shown? If the games aren’t regularly on ESPN or a network with similar reach, the contract for the games would be less."

As a contributor here to the St. John’s page you should know that basketball drives the Big East and it was one of 2 conferences that made more money from basketball than football. You should also know that Uconn and Rutgers LOST money on football. Almost every college basketball game is now televised whether a team sucks or is good. Same goes for football. When the basketball season comes no one will be thinking football anymore and the folks at Syracuse or Uconn should start to worry about a BB program without the likes of Boeheim, who will be 70 when the ACC merger happens and Calhoun who be way past retirement! Throw in an aging and ailing coach K and I think it is Uconn, Syracuse and Duke that may be worrying three years from now playing a bunch of southern schools they have nothing in common with except that same television contract! I feel sorry for their fans and I am not worried about St. John’s because they play in the greatest city in America. That is more than what I can say for Syracuse.

by SJUhoopnut on Sep 18, 2011 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

But this is a real problem

I think Big East basketball is fantastic. And there’s a chance it’ll be fantastic in a hoops-only conference, and even better in a conference with the remaining football programs and Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Iowa State.

But at issue here is the fact that football is seen by Athletic Directors as making the money. It’s got bigger revenue streams. Bigger ratings. And that’s what the football schools are chasing. Just because the schools lost money on football doesn’t mean the revenues are lower. From CBS news (but I can;t find the original CBS piece) here:

Using the figures the Big East reportedly turned down from ESPN — $1.4 billion for nine years — the league’s nine football members (including TCU) would have earned between $14.5 million and $16.93 million a year, based on the football schools receiving 65 or 75 percent, respectively, of the media rights deal. The Big East’s eight non-football schools would have received between $2.43 million (in a 25-75 percent split) and $3.2 million (35-65 percent split) annually.

Big East football is terrible. Incompetent. Needs to be far better for the amount of say these teams have in the media rights and conference argument. And yet, the chase for football money has been driving the decisions for many of the schools.

I don’t want to see this happen. But what I’m seeing is the same thing many other people are seeing. It might take a few years to shake out, but this is not good! Basketball might drive the Big East, and it’s more profitable to the teams… but is it more profitable to the networks? If not, isn’t this a problem?

It’s possible that ESPN buys basketball only, and the revenues stay in that ballpark. And it’s possible that CBS Sports wants a marquee basketball conference. It’s also possible that the Big East survives – South Florida and Louisville don’t want to leave, from some accounts, and Cincy needs something to hang on to. U Conn and Rutgers are begging for ACC invites, WVU applied to be SEC.

Maybe the post came out harshly. But many people are seeing a complete upheaval of the college landscape, one that has no regard for the familial bonds of longtime basketball rivalries and one that doesn’t give a damn about the travel of the non-revenue student athlete.

Syracuse and the rest of the defectors may suck until perpetuity; and their football will languish at the heel end of the league. It doesn’t mean that these moves won’t really hurt St. John’s.

Rumble in the Garden - St. John's blog with thunderous undertones, on SB Nation | Follow on Facebook | Follow on Twitter

by picodulce on Sep 18, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

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